Darwin denyer sits on US House Science Committee

Congressman calls evolution lie from 'pit of hell'

He sits on the U.S. House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

Georgia Rep. Paul Broun, M.D., said in videotaped remarks,

"All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell. And it's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who are taught that from understanding that they need a savior."

Broun also said that he believes the Earth is about 9,000 years old and that it was made in six days.

The Republican lawmaker made those comments during a speech Sept. 27 at a sportsman's banquet at Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell.

Broun, a medical doctor, is running for re-election in November unopposed by Democrats.

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Congressman-calls-evolution-lie-from-pit-of-hell-3924955.php#ixzz28YITIW8J

And now comes the Autumn

There is a certain belligerence, an "eagerness to confront" as one talking head on CNN said today, that permeates small or large parts of most societies.

Those societies that try to suppress that urge, placing little to no value on the trait, are generally characterized as "civil". It is only one trait of a civil society, of course. Other such traits include respect for dissent, tolerance of diversity and appreciation for variety. And, Guambat hastens to add, defense of oneself is also a valued trait that can be found in civil society.

Those societies that tend to put a higher value on, or do not suppress, the "honor" of brawn over brain, tend to allow that trait to overshadow other "civil" traits, like art, science, literature and discourse, and become rather uninteresting, monolithic and highly authoritarian.

Of course, all such values are judgments presumed by a social construct, and consumed by an nihilistic, deeply rooted, culturally fed, or starved, human instinct, an instinct that can be found in other species as well, so must be deeply embedded.

These are some of the thoughts and fears that engage Guambat as he returns to the deep recesses of his burrow in the Arab Autumn that now follows the Arab Spring.


SPRING (source: http://pol297thearabspring.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/mapping-the-arab-spring/)

AUTUMN (source: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57512841/widespread-protests-against-u.s-over-anti-muslim-film/)

Precisely which 1,000 words?

Guambat lives in a land of Old Sayings. His knowledge, such as it is, is distilled in homily and grits. Funny that, given his rather unorthodox meanderings long ago. Contrary-wise, given his rather orthodox meanderings of late.

Two sayings are called to mind in recent events: "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me." And, "a picture is worth a thousand words".

How many pictures does it take to harm me?

Egyptians angry at film scale U.S. embassy walls

Egyptian protesters scaled the walls of the U.S. embassy on Tuesday, tore down the American flag and burned it during a protest over what they said was a film being produced in the United States that insulted Prophet Mohammad.

In place of the U.S. flag, the protesters tried to raise a black flag with the words "There is no God but God, and Mohammad is his messenger", a Reuters witness said.

Once the U.S. flag was hauled down, some protesters tore it up and showed off pieces to television cameras. Others burned the remains outside the fortress-like embassy building in central Cairo. But some protesters objected to the flag burning.

Many Muslims consider any depiction of the Prophet to be offensive.

"This movie must be banned immediately and an apology should be made," said 19-year-old Ismail Mahmoud, a member of the so-called "ultras" soccer supporters who played a big role in the uprising that brought down Hosni Mubarak last year.

He called on President Mohamed Mursi, Egypt's first civilian president and an Islamist, to take action, without giving details of the film that angered him or other protesters.

About 20 people stood on top of the embassy wall, while about 2,000 protesters gathered outside. The demonstrators were mainly supporters of Islamist groups or "ultras" youths.

Rafik Farouk, 38, an Egyptian Christian, also took part. "I am here because I am Egyptian and reject anything that insults Islam or anything that sparks division in Egypt," he said.

Read more at the article headline link.

The Movie So Offensive That Egyptians Just Stormed the U.S. Embassy Over It

What exactly does the film say? It's still not clear, but it appears to compare Mohammed to a goat and Muslims, according to one translation, to "child-lovers." The New York Times' Liam Stack, offering some offhand translations of the scene shown above, called it a "doozy." The man in the scene says of his donkey, "This is the first Muslim animal." He asks the goat if it likes girls; when it doesn't answer, he bursts into laughter and says, "He doesn't like girls," according to Stack. Other scenes in the above clip seem to portray Muslim Egyptian characters, who for some reason all have strong New York accents, as immoral and violent, particularly toward the Christians whom they pursue with near-genocidal fervor. A number of Islam's founding figures, including the prophet, are accused of homosexuality and child molestation.

UPDATE 1: US ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff killed in rocket attack

The US ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, along with three other embassy staff, were killed Tuesday night following a rocket attack in Benghazi, Reuters quoted a Libyan official as saying.

The official told Reuters that Stevens was being driven from the consulate building to a safer location when the gunmen opened fire. "The US ambassador and three staff members were killed when gunmen fired rockets at them," the official in Benghazi told Reuters.

Deputy Minister of Interior Wanis Al-Sharif, speaking to AFP on Wednesday, also confirmed that the ambassador had been killed. Libya's Deputy Prime Minister Mustafa Abu Shagur corroborated Al-Sharif's statement via Twitter.

For their part, a US embassy employee in Tripoli told Reuters, Wednesday, that they could only confirm one death during Tuesday's attacks. Concerning Stevens, the employee affirmed: "we have no information regarding this."

Al-Jazeera's Suleiman Idrissi in Benghazi reported that the ambassador had been paying a short visit to the Eastern city, when the US building came under attack.

Security sources told the pan-Arab news agency that Stevens died of suffocation. The bodies of the dead were transported to the Benghazi international airport, to be flown to Tripoli and then onwards to a major US airbase in Germany, Al Jazeera added.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague, who was in Cairo Monday on an official visit to Egypt, condemned the attack in­­ a statement shortly after the news broke Wednesday morning.

"There is no justification for such an attack and the appalling death of an US official," Hague said, "The UK stands ready to assist the Libyan authorities in any way we can and to support their efforts to continue the path towards a stable and secure Libya that fulfils the aspirations of the Libyan people."

Hague urged the Libyan authorities to take "urgent action to improve security" and to find those responsible for the violence. He sent his condolences to Stevens' family and colleagues at the State Department.

Libya's Deputy Prime Minister also denounced the bloody attacks, calling them "cowardly acts" via his Twitter account.

Ignorance can be vile as well as bliss. Of course, ignorance can be found in the making of the movie as well as in the viewing of it. It's sort of like Through the Looking Glass, looking back on itself.

Dnasaurs spotted again walking the planks in Texas

John T. Harvey teaches economics at Texas Christian University, mildly characterized as a "traditional" school. And he's terrified. Terrified of the distinctly un-Christian Texas Republican Party's official party orthodoxy for 2012.

The Terrifying Texas GOP Platform

I am so distressed by the 2012 platform released by the Texas Republican Party that I find it impossible not to comment. it is difficult to believe that what the Republicans put together during their convention in Fort Worth was even written in the 21st century.

The document (available here) has already made headlines with the portion that opposes the “teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills” and “critical thinking skills.” Although a partial retraction followed, this was in terms of the wording, not the general meaning. It appears that their fear is that these “focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.”

This begs the question, who is really aiming to force their beliefs on our children, Texas schools or Texas Republicans?

The economic policies recommended by the document are equally impractical and ill-considered. In addition, they believe that the Federal Reserve system should be abolished and that the US should return to the gold standard.

This is not to say that there are not portions of the Texas Republican Party Platform that are perfectly reasonable. There are.

But, by and large, it reads as if it were written in another age and in ignorance of the social, economic, and scientific evidence of the past half century. Let there be no mistake about it: the Texas Republican Party Platform is terrifying.

Were its recommendations implemented, the US would resemble a third-world country with a cheap, uneducated workforce and a massive gap between rich and poor. Unemployment would be rampant, growth stagnant, and answers few and far between thanks to the systematic repression of higher order and critical thinking.

Texas GOP’s 2012 Platform Opposes Teaching Of ‘Critical Thinking Skills’

Here are some other notable planks for the RPT’s 2012 platform:

On the Patriot Act:

We urge review and revision of those portions of the USA Patriot Act, and related executive and military orders and directives that erode constitutional rights and essential liberties of citizens. Emergency War Powers and Martial Law Declarations - We strongly urge Congress to repeal the War Powers Act and end our declared state of emergency. Any Declaration of Martial law should be approved by Congress.

On “Livestock and Pet Locations”:

We oppose a mandatory animal identification system.

On the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA):

We oppose this act through which the federal government would coerce religious business owners and employees to violate their own beliefs and principles by affirming what they consider to be sinful and sexually immoral behavior.

On Campaign Contributions:

We support full disclosure of the amounts and sources of any campaign contributions to political candidates, whether contributed by individuals, political action committees, or other entities.

On the “Voter Rights Act” [sic]:

We urge that the Voter Rights Act of 1965 codified and updated in 1973 be repealed and not reauthorized.

On Homosexuality:

We affirm that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society and contributes to the breakdown of the family unit. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle, in public policy, nor should “family” be redefined to include homosexual “couples.” We believe there should be no granting of special legal entitlements or creation of special status for homosexual behavior, regardless of state of origin. Additionally, we oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction or belief in traditional values.

On the UN Treaty on the Rights of the Child:

We unequivocally oppose the United States Senate’s ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

The Republican Party of Texas’ recently adopted 2012 platform contains a plank that opposes the teaching of “critical thinking skills” in schools. Contacted by TPM on Thursday, Republican Party of Texas (RPT) Communications Director Chris Elam said the “critical thinking skills” language made it into the platform by mistake.

Mistake my Tex-ass. See more on the Dinosaurs of Texas

Texas Bored of Education decision too complex to result from chance

Dinosaurs in Texas: But Wait, There's More!

Dinosaurs at it again in Texas

Hattip to that Son of a Guambat

Jesus, the IDiots are after me

The ID-iots just will not let up.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/christian-schools-hit-back-over-origin-of-life/2005/10/31/1130720481837.html

And they are all Christian, make no doubt about it. This is a christian attack on us all. Show me one athiest who accepts the ID concept. Show me Jews or Muslims rallying in large numbers, on websites, at schools, to pressure the ID beliefs onward. It's christian theology and evangelism. It's religious triumphalism run rampant. It's the beginning of prayers in schools, Lord's Prayers to start the day, Lord's Prayers to end the day.

Lordy, lordy, lordy. Whatever became of the notion of separation of church and state? Whatever became of the notion of freedom from religion?

This is a christian organised, christian funded, christian led campaign to spread AND IMPOSE the gospel in our schools, in our public places, in our political parties, in our homes, on our TVs, in our speech and in our innermost thoughts. It is an attack to replace a secular balance with a Jesus theocracy.

ID has no independent life outside christian circles. This is a crusade to put all non-christians back in some dark closet.

There is no basis, whatsoever, for this nonsense, other than a pure, blinded faith. An evangelical kind of faith. A faith that brooks no calling to ration. A faith that lives and breaths for itself, and to hell with the rest of mankind Left Behind. A Biblical faith based on the mystical belief system of Middle Eastern nomads who cannot even agree who amongst themselves has the key and Word of the One True God, the Intelligent Designer.

Would the christians ever, ever consider to give up their jesus obsession and accept a jewish god, or a muslim one (let alone a buddha or a confusius?).

Would any Intelligent Designer set its "given ones" at the throats of all the others? Where is the Intelligent Design that pits generations of muslims against generations of jews? Where is the Intelligent Design that pits Protestants against Catholics? Where is the Intelligent Design that pits whites against blacks and reds and yellows and ....? That says humankind is the crown of all creation? That says all other life has no soul and is meant to serve us? That says if you don't believe in me you will spend the rest of eternity in hell.

That says this particular rock in the billions of rocks out there is the only one blessed, the only one allowed to have life, is the only one an Intelligent Designer is concerned with?

Let's call it for what it is: ID is jesus jihad. It is christianity versus the rest of us. http://living-with-matilda.blogspot.com/2005/10/not-so-intelligent-trojan-horse.html

They're intent on taking the gloves off, and for the sake of my sanity and my children's, its bare nucks for me now, too. I've been perfectly content to live in harmony and shared space with christianity. I share many of its customs. But the ID movement is encroaching. It is demanding centre stage. It is repealing the laws of nature. ID desires nothing less than the evisceration of science.

Am I fed up? Too bloody right, I am. I've had it up to here with the Howard government AND the Labor non-opposition taking away my freedoms. Now, Lord Nelson and his band of DVD bearing faith healers want to take away science, too.

Can't mosque his prejudice

Mosman is a well-to-do, educated leafy suburb on Sydney's rich North Shore. Terribly trendy, upper-crust, establishment (or wannabe). At least one local elected official put out the "not welcomed here" mat for Australian Muslims.

"The Mosman Daily this week quoted [local councilman Dominic] Lopez as saying he was concerned that "men in flowing gowns and flowing beards" had been seen inspecting the Christian Science property on Military Road, which was up for sale.

"This is a Judeo-Christian area and it would not welcome people of another faith," he said. Cr Lopez insisted he had simply been repeating concerns expressed by locals over the sight of "men with flowing beards and gowns" inspecting the church. "All I'm doing is echoing the sentiments of people that live around there," he said.

"Cr Lopez went on to say that wherever mosques were built, nearby properties took longer to sell. He said: "I had an uncle in Lakemba. They put a mosque at the end of his street, and it changed. When he died it took them a couple of years to sell the house."
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/muslims-not-wanted-here-councillor/2005/10/14/1128796712328.html

I'd give you John Howard's quote condemning the official, but I can't seem to find one at the moment. I'm sure he wouldn't condone it, though. After all, he wants to end the breeding grounds of terrorism.

Maybe in tomorrow's paper I'll find something.

Religion by the numbers

If "social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy" are any useful evidence of the moral character of a country, and if we believe that a healthy dose of religion can make the country a better place, we may need to parse some of the data coming from a recent survey/study/observation that has been doing the rounds of late. I mention it because it got an op/ed piece in the SMH today (http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/correlation-of-christian-ethics-social-ills-knocks-advocates-fromknees-to-backside/2005/10/03/1128191653994.html).

The study is "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies, A First Look" by Gregory S. Paul, published in The Journal of Religion & Society, "a cross-disciplinary, electronic journal published by the Rabbi Myer and Dorothy Kripke Center for the Study of Religion and Society at Creighton University". http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

I'm skeptical of statistics and any study which attempts to take on and simply synthesise a topic of such immense proportions. I was, though, intriqued by the conclusions drawn in the opinion piece. It said the study "found there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and public health and social stability." While "No one is suggesting that religious faith is harmful, and, anecdotally, it seems it may even be beneficial on a personal level...." nevertheless, "Those who claim religion is a way out of our social troubles should heed the one firm conclusion of this report: that societies which have largely discarded religion are not hotbeds of sin and iniquity, but are often highly functional, safe and prosperous. Consequently, relying on religion to fix social problems is irrational."

This doesn't lend a lot of support to the notion that faith-based groups are better at providing social services than government. I doubt this little controversy will be laid to rest in my lifetime, so I will give it no more than passing interest. And not a little satisfaction, none the same. (And pity the attention this author will attrack; he'll end up wishing he could trade places with Salmon Rushdie, I'd wager.)

The Sisters of Mercenary

Whenever I'm in a charitable mode (having both the mood and the moola at the same time), I tend to give to the Salvation Army; the Salvos as they are affectionately known in Australia. I'm no great study of charities, but what I've seen in Australia is that whenever there's a disaster of some sort, they're always johnny-on-the-spot with a cuppa, a blanket, an arm and a shoulder and, if you want it, a bit of prayer -- and if you don't, how's your coffee? The Australian Salvos are pretty earthy people. They're direct, simple, personable, non-sanctimonious, low-overhead and effective, and I have never seen their aid appeals based on any desire to preach or convert, only to serve. I don't believe in their religion, but that isn't important to them or me; we both believe in their mission.

So, if there were an extraordinary emergency and the Salvos were in the thick of it and a government had the goods but not the means of getting the stuff to where it was needed and the Salvos were there to handle it and were running short of their own goods, I would be quite happy to see the government hand off the stuff for the Salvos to deal with it.

But if, say, the Hare Krishnas were there offering aid, or the Watchtower folks, or others who would make as much or more about their "message" as the aid, I'd have an entirely different think about it. People who want to make you beholden to them for the aid they offer should not be allowed to push their brand of religion with the aid of government support.

And the catalyst for this post is the announcement by FEMA that, in the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, they will be making aid available to certain faith-based groups.

(Anything that is "faith-based" is Christian. It's code. Christians speak of their religion as "faith", which it is. Other religious groups don't refer to themselves as "faith-based" even though it is technically accurate to say that any religion is based on faith, i.e., an unprovable belief. Bush's use of the term is intended to be inclusive all non-Christian groups, but it must grate on them. They could be referred to as "belief-based" groups, but that would put the Christians off-side, because in the code of Christians, "faith" is of a higher and probably more specific order than belief. Sigh.)

Anyway, this little can of worms is troubling. Is tax money going to support evangelical "reaching-out"? Or is this simply a pragmatic way to get support where and when it is needed in the most effective way? Is it a one-off, or the thin end of the wedge of tax supported ministry? It will all depend on how it works out. And that's the rub. How accountable is the government and how accountable are the "giving hands" who are finding it better to receive?

There are many issues and questions simply because we cannot trust those who come to do good to refrain from doing very well indeed.

For instance, if the government pays the Carnival cruise lines to provide emergency accommodation, the shipping lines must pay taxes on the subsidy. (Oops, bad example: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/milliondollar-refugee-ships-lying-half-empty/2005/09/29/1127804608638.html But they would have to if they were registered in the US.) Shouldn't the faith-based group so so likewise?

And there is the issue of misrepresentation: if you get put up by Carnival, you have to know they are being paid by the government. But if a faith-based group is looking out after you, isn't it a bit of a misrepresentation to imply it is out of the goodness (and faith) of your group if you don't disclose that the government is underwriting your "hand-out"?

And the misrepresentation cuts both ways. Say you feel the "calling" to minister to people in need as part of your out-reach mission. Don't you think it undercuts your sincerity if the people receiving your care think you are doing it as an agent of the government, or for mercenary purposes and not religious ones? Isn't there a difference from really giving and only being seen to give? Isn't there an obligation to be honest about it; isn't that part of spreading "the truth"?

I don't know. The more I want the idea to work, the more problems I see coming from it. So much so that I'm not sure it's worth getting involved with. That's probably one reason the founding fathers put that separation of church and state thingy in the whatsit. It's the entanglement conundrum.

You can see what others think about this at:
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=WU05I23&f=PG03I03 The reference to the program as a "Faith accompli" probably says it all. And don't overlook the assessment of what a dirtbag the new acting FDA chief is -- from their perspective.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12124
I particularly like the tasteful side-bar ads that show up on this and so many like-minded sites (yes, I do go there; plumbers often find themselves up to there with other people's stuff).


http://www.religionandsocialpolicy.org/news/article_print.cfm?id=3236

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/3374289

And there's lots more around. If it's not already in your email inbox it's not too hard to find on the net.

You gotta have faith

FEMA keeps and promulgates a list of groups that qualify for tax-deductible charitable contributions, to help people who want to donate, but don't know where, to help with things like the Katrina/Rita efforts. One of the organisations is the American Red Cross. (Must be my day for them: http://guambatstew.blogspot.com/2005/09/gloat.html ) The American Red Cross is not a "faith-based" organisation. There is one other group on the list which also is not a faith-based group. Now, FEMA is a government department, but all the rest on that list of helping groups are faith-based.

And, as you would know, Pat Robertson has a great deal of faith, of a particularly strident evangelical Christian brand. (You can get a free history lesson coupled with one of his recent visions here: http://guambatstew.blogspot.com/2005/08/monroe-doctrine.html) It appears one of his organisations is on that FEMA list, and his group has also been the beneficiary of other arrangements and connections, perhaps not all one-way, with various sympatico political bodies. I'm not one to judge the veracity of this, and this may be libelous material, and if so I certainly do here and now renounce it, but there is a story about all of this at:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050919/blumenthal

Another reason to love a sunburnt country

Further to my last post http://guambatstew.blogspot.com/2005/08/question-of-identity.html, the Howard government ministers have been sown to engage the community in the new spirit of the Australian dream. His Education Minister, Brendon Nelson, has directed that Australian values will have to be taught in Muslim schools, whatever that means. (You might remember him from a prior post http://guambatstew.blogspot.com/2005/08/i-yam-that-i-yam.html. He's the guy who has imported the IDiotic "debate" from America.)

Well, among all the commentary that has generated, I think this letter to the editor in the Sydney Morning Herald (Aug 27-28) is pretty much spot on:

"Australian values in Islamic schools? Crikey, cobber, what next? Australian values in federal cabinet? Sure, sport, they are all for a fair go for their mates at the big end of town. And it's just bonza how they wrap themselves in the flag and milk every veterans' turn-out for all it's worth, even though none of them have been within a bull's roar of a gunshot.
But how fair dinkum is participating in wars of aggression in the Middle East, destroying the industrial relations system, hanging up the phone on the outback and creating a society in which young people are reduced to being stressed out workaholics who still can't afford a house, a wedding or a family?
Stone the crows, mate, if Brendan Nelson represents Australian values, then we could all learn something at the mosque. Eh?"Phil Gregory, Narrawallee

A question of identity

This past week, John Howard's government has extracted his retribution on the the Australian Muslim population and demanded his strict thought discipline that he imposes on all in his party. I won't go into it in much detail (you can search the MSM for the story). Just to put my characterisation on it, what he did was summons a carefully staged, choreographed and scripted gathering of Muslim "leaders" to hear their oaths of homage, fealty and contrition. This to make Howard look both like the loving father and the moral leader that I am sure he honestly wants to be, in the worse way. And I fear that is the way he's chosen. Frankly, to me, it looked too much like Massah calling in a group of House Niggers to get their complicity in taking action against some obstreperous Field Niggers. And it will probably get the same result.

But it could be that more good will come of the exercise than some of us fear, and I look forward to watching what creative juices flow from the lashing. For one, there's been another public airing of just what all the blending of traditions in modern life is all about. In this respect, it seems the ancient prejudices are pretty close to the sleeve of Europeans, and that their models of multiculturalism are not working as well as they could. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/blind-faith/2005/08/26/1124563028951.html

For another thing, it looks like maybe the Americans have got it right on this one, at least more right than other places. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/us-leap-of-faith-has-happy-landing/2005/08/26/1124563027301.html That'll be sure to get right up the nose of those anti-American folks.

Acknowledgements to Lissa Bockrath for use of her imagery: http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bockrathgallery.com/lissa/Blurred_Reality/Bockrath.TheMeltingPot.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bockrathgallery.com/lissa/Blurred_Reality/lissa_bockrath_blurred_reality.htm&h=258&w=395&sz=54&tbnid=bdYq_-0Dr9AJ:&tbnh=78&tbnw=120&hl=en&start=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmelting%2Bpot%26start%3D140%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

Death wish

"The people who have come into [our] institutions [today] are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived * for a godly fumigation." Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986 (http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/pat_quotes/)
Godly fumigation? Gas chambers? You're with us or you're against us, eh Pat?
* Ol' Pat sure keeps track of time: "the time has come" for Chavez, too. See post below: "We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability." http://guambatstew.blogspot.com/2005/08/monroe-doctrine.html

Mission Impossible

"Islam is back on the table," said a source close to the negotiations.
Under a deal brokered on Friday by the US ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad, Islam was to be named "a primary source of legislation" in the new Iraqi constitution, with the proviso that no legislation be permitted that conflicted with the "universal principles" of the religion.
The latter phrase raised concerns that Iraqi judges would have wide latitude to strike down laws now on the books, as well as future legislation.
At the same time, according to a Kurdish leader involved in the talks, Mr Khalilzad had backed language that would have given clerics sole authority in settling marriage and family disputes. That gave rise to concerns that women's rights could be curtailed.
Finally, Mr Khalilzad had been backing an arrangement that could have allowed clerics to have a hand in interpreting the constitution. That arrangement, coupled with the expansive language for Islam, prompted accusations from Kurds that the Americans were helping in the formation of an Islamic state.
"It's shocking," a secular Kurd politician told Reuters. "It doesn't fit American values. They have spent so much blood and money here, only to back the creation of an Islamist state … I can't believe that's what the Americans really want or what the American people want."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/expanded-role-for-islam-unravels-iraqi-talks/2005/08/21/1124562750270.html#

Religous fLAW

"The law of liberty tends to abolish the reign of race over race, of faith over faith, of class over class." ~ Lord Acton

There can be too much influence of organised religion over civil life. The problem is not in the spirituality of religion, but in the earthly habits of the religious. My view is that, in a pluralist society, the injection of religious practice (including "faith based initiatives") into civil law constitutes a threat to liberty and democracy.

It must be understood that no one has ever elected the people (and it is people) who proclaimed religious laws.

While I value the respect for religions in their own space, and do not advance their villification, I feel that we must steadfastly uphold the principal of separation of church (I didn't say morals or values) and state if we are to aspire to live in a democratic fold. We have enough problems living in a diverse and daily smaller world of belief and custom already to take on the divisive battle of religion.

You simply cannot legislate belief, and to give any religious belief the imprimatur of civil law puts all non-believers immediately offside.

The instigation for today's rant is the following from the Sydney Morning Herald: http://smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/19/1124435144954.html

"It's not just a book of revelation and inspiration; it's a book of legislation," he said. Among these ... "laws" was capital punishment for offences including adultery, homosexuality, rape, child molestation, bestiality and murder.
"This is God's law, but the execution of those laws has to be by a government apparatus," he said.

And we also revisit the guy with the spiritual teapot in this article: http://smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/19/1124435141730.html You might remember him from a prior post. http://guambatstew.blogspot.com/2005/08/religious-police.html

His name is Ayah Pin. He seems a harmless enough pinhead. But, like the Falun Gong pinheads, there is no such thing as a "harmless" belief that doesn't toe official state-sponsored thought.

"In a country where freedom of religion is enshrined in the constitution, the Sky Kingdom followers are discovering there is no freedom to reject or reinterpret Islam.
Ayah Pin, born a Muslim, has led the small multi-faith Sky Kingdom sect for 30 years, and claims to have 1000 followers in Malaysia and 10,000 abroad. He has been imprisoned for apostasy, the crime of rejecting the fundamental beliefs of Islam."

"...Malaysian lawyers refused to defend [Pin's followers] fearing a backlash from conservative Muslims and authorities, officials said." http://www.religionnewsblog.com/11905

For further reading consider: http://pewforum.org/faith-based-initiatives/

http://www.jewishpublicaffairs.org/action/recent/faithbased_01-30-01.htm